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11 - Volume 2, World of Remnant | Table of Contents | Volume 2 Finale
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So, Volume Two.
The last post was world of Remnant, and the post before that contained the parts of the Volume I hated most. So…it can only go up from here? I suppose? Let’s see what we have in store now that we have “half-baked investigation” and “prom” out of the way.
We open up on more goddamn art deco. Ozpin’s tower, specifically, or I guess that’s ‘Ozpin’s office at the top of the CCT Tower’. Then we transition to a zoom-out of Ozpin’s face while his compatriots argue.
I: They were here. Ozpin, they were here! [slamming a fist on the table]
G: We are very much aware of that, thank you James!
I: Fantastic, you’re aware. Now are we going to do something about it, or should we just stay the course and continue to ignore what’s right in front of us?
Ooh, is this happening already? I would love it if this count was early, I’ve been itching to talk about it. Anyway, Ozpin drags his hands down his face (contribute, maybe, asshole?) and then calls for someone to come in. That someone is Ruby, who apologizes as the elevator took a while getting her there due to someone hitting all the buttons.
Ozpin thanks her for coming and asks how she’s feeling, and Ruby says she’s alright, albeit disappointed that so far she’s zero for three on catching bad guys. Her joke does not go over well with the adults, who all stare at her, and she does the awkward hand-behind-her-head gesture as she realizes this.
Ironwood steps forward and actually commends Ruby, though, letting her know with a hand on her shoulder that he thinks what she did last night was “exactly what being a Huntress is all about”.
Oh, thank God, we’re not going to go the dramatic-but-exhausted route of grilling Ruby for something she happened upon wrong-place-wrong-time style. I think I appreciate that.
I: You recognized a threat, you took action, and you did the very best you could.
R: Thank you, sir.
Oz: Now, the General has already informed us of the events that...transpired, last night. But now that you’ve rested, we were wondering if you had anything to add?
I’m confused as to why she needed rest at all. She interrupted espionage and had a short skirmish in which she wasn’t hurt. This didn’t have to wait until the day after.
Glynda asks if anyone else was with the intruder, and did she look familiar to Ruby at all? Hint, hint, doofus. Ruby then experiences a critical moment of rock stupid in which she says that the woman wore a mask and never spoke, but she fought with glass. She doesn’t think the glass was her semblance, but her clothing lit up whenever she attacked.
YOU HAVE SEEN ONLY ONE OTHER PERSON WHO FITS THAT DESCRIPTION.
Glynda finally spells it out: save the glass, that pretty much matches the person she went 1v1 with when rescuing Ruby in the pilot.
Ironwood says that weaving dust into clothing is an age-old technique and thus, that doesn’t help. Ruby asks if they think this lady is connected to Torchwick and the White Fang, and Ozpin says “it’s possible”. Fascinating insight, thanks. Ironwood gives him a (sensible) look of “are you fucking kidding me” when he continues that there’s “not enough evidence to link the two”.
You people are really damn bad at figuring out the plot for all the cameras you’ve got everywhere, I have mentioned that, right?
Ruby then rubs her two braincells together, albeit in a stupid manner, and says the thinks she heard the intruder saying something about a hideout in the southeast—you know, that detail the got from Torchwick’s rally four episodes ago? She is very clearly trying to discreetly hand adults what little information she has…despite saying only a minute ago that the woman never spoke, and despite apparently not linking the Lady-Whose-Name-We-Don’t-Know to Torchwick yet.
Ozpin, with what was apparently intended as a knowing smile (but which comes off as a smug smirk) says “interesting”, clearly catching Ruby’s ploy but not calling her on it, cutting off Glynda when she tries to.
Ozpin recommends she go and spend time with her team, as she has a “big day” ahead of her, bidding her that she be discreet about this matter, won’t she? Ruby saunters out with a “yes sir”, and unfortunately the scene ends right before Ironwood and Glynda, glaring at each other, can continue arguing. Damn it.
As soon as Ruby’s opened her dorm’s door, her teammates have zoomed forward, begging to hear the details of what happened, and then—oh, hang on, we’re cutting back to Ozpin’s office! Nevermind!
Ironwood, hand braced against the window, recommends sending a large force to the southeast to figure out exactly what’s going on, and eradicate any forces that stand in their way.
G: Why must your answer to everything be a triumphant display of military bravado?! You treat every situation like it’s a contest of measuring di—
No no, shh, keep listening. Ozpin, whose chair was noted around this time by fans to bear a heavy resemblance to a penis and testicles when observed from behind, interrupts her, but says she’s right.
Oz: While I, too, would love to end this situation once and for all, we must remember that this situation may go beyond Vale. Beyond Beacon.
Ironwood, clearly having heard things to this effect before, frowns as Ozpin continues that if this really is some big master plan, boldness is not the right option, especially as they “can’t risk the spread of panic”.
See that? Pay attention to that.
I: [in a tone barely holding back anger] I have served you faithfully for years. But if you mean to tell me that your plan is to merely hold the defenses and wait…
Oz: It is not! You are a general, James. So tell me, when you plan to go to war, which do you send in first? The flagbearer, or the scouts?
Mkay. Well.
Get used to this, and don’t get comfortable with it. This is not the first time RWBY will cast Ironwood as brash and into displays of force to contrast Ozpin, and judging by Ironwoods comments, this is not the first time he’s been frustrated by Ozpin’s unwillingness to confront a problem.
It’s easy to get caught up in what seems like a very blank issue: subtlety good, bulldozing force bad. But step back a bit, and you’ll remember that Ozpin is doing this in the wake of his CCT tower being invaded and, as far as they’re able to verify, compromised! There is a colossal threat to the balance hanging here, and by sitting around and just observing, he is giving the enemy, who potentially already has access to a lot of information he would rather be private, time to act on it! The intruder was right underneath his goddamn office, and he is treating this situation like they’re still in the preliminaries! Not only did his lackluster security enable Cinder to get in, his hesitant approach to the problem that caused is dangerous!
Ozpin, the time for ‘scouts’ is over—putting to the side that, yes, you already have scouts out there doing recon, minor spoilers. The enemy went past scouting and broke into your most sensitive places. It’s time to nip that in the bud before it blows up in your face.
But no, Ironwood’s bad and dumb because he wants to fix the problem now instead of waiting it out.
Don’t think I didn’t miss the bit about ‘not creating a panic’ up there, either—this is going to really rear its ugly head in Volumes 3 and onward. But for now, we have enough here to debut our latest subcount: the Prowling Wolf Fallacy.
This subcount to “Reliable Leaders” is so named because this situation can be compared to being stuck in a space with a wolf, or other symbolically appropriate monster, prowling around and ready to eat you. You have two options: stay quiet and hope you don’t get caught, or reveal yourself and fight back. You fight back, you stand a chance of defeating the wolf, but it may make things worse because the wolf now knows where you are, you may not win the ensuing fight, and you can’t go back to hiding. You stay quiet, the wolf isn’t killing you—for now. The Prowling Wolf Fallacy count goes up whenever RWBY emphasizes the “hide” option as the better one, without failing to account for the fact that while Ozpin and co. are hiding, the wolf is sniffing them out and may eventually find them, and may find them in a corner they can’t fight back from.
Prowling Wolf Fallacy: 1
We cut to the RWBY dorm. Weiss is saying that Ruby’s excursion to the tower alone last night was a risky move. But Blake thinks she handled it well, while Yang is sure she’ll be alright. Yang also has mail she wants to show Ruby: their dad has sent something from home.
What is it? We don’t know—but it’s a small tube about the size of a thermos, and she wants to open it together. They do so, and out pops…
Ruby is thrilled to find that their father has for some reason mailed them their dog, as is Yang. Weiss and Blake, not so much. Ruby has already picked up Zwei (the name seems to be a reference to Ein, the Welsh Pembroke Corgi from Cowboy Bebop whose name means “one” in German and thus, Zwei means “two”) and is getting enthusiastically licked across the face by the time we cut to Blake, hiding up on a top bunk.
Weiss is initially annoyed, but is caught up in Zwei’s adorable charms mid-sentence and is promptly smitten, perhaps surprisingly. Unsurprisingly, Blake remains unsold, and no, you are not imagining that this peeved attitude towards a dog (or rather, dogs) is meant to be a funny ha-ha about Blake being a cat faunus. Ha. Ha. Ha.
RSVP: 23
No, I don’t know why we’ve suddenly decided to introduce a corgi into the plot. I suppose it serves as a suitable distraction from said plot.
Glynda’s voice over the intercom summons all first year students to the amphitheater. Weiss mentions that they can’t exactly take care of Zwei, as they’ll be gone for a week very soon. Yang reads a letter packaged up with Zwei from their father, Taiyang. According to his note, he has to leave the island for a few days, and so sent Zwei to his girls for them to take care of.
…That’s so fucking stupid. That’s stupid. I—god damn it, hire a dog-sitter! Why even bother to explain the team pet inserted into the story if it’s going to be worse than if you didn’t.
Ill Logic: 27
Yang dumps a crapload of dog food cans somehow stuffed inside the package onto Zwei, then they leave, Weiss dragging her feet as she struggles with the doggie’s cuteness and Blake going to extreme lengths to keep her distance as she leaves. Ruby, however, hangs behind, staring at Zwei until an idea apparently strikes her.
Yes, she put the dog in the goddamn backpack.
Ruby leaves her backpack up against a wall with the other students’, while Glynda addresses the auditorium, immediately surrendering the floor to Ozpin. Oh boy, this is a doozy.
It’s funny how Vacuo students are so un-outfitted that they all just sit there in t-shirts and shorts. Alas, you might’ve been better off zooming in on certain students, or at least showing them from behind, Rooster Teeth. At least that way we wouldn’t have had another unsettling look at the three faces and hairstyles you provided your random character generator.
For your benefit, I only starred the ones with identical face, hair color, and eye color. Shout-out to the unfortunate black girl generated and replicated five times.
Well, I got several things to say:
- Wow! Fascinating! Definitely something that could’ve been in one of those World of Remnant videos you were releasing!
- This is not the faunus war, then? Because I would hope that if so, it would warrant a little more than a half-baked comment on individuality through diversity.
- You know, I don’t think anyone was hyping up for an in-story explanation as to why everybody was named after colors or concepts vaguely implying colors. Most viewers would just have assumed it was a fun quirk of the world.
- Christ, I think that was the biggest bunch of fuckshit nothing monologue we’ve yet seen. That had nothing to do with any part of the plot exposed to us before now, and will have nothing to do with anything going forward. That was a solid wall of talking that shaved animators a good minute and forty seconds off of their schedules. Again, what was the point of World of Remnant if a) they told us basically nothing and b) you were just going to cut corners in the actual episode content anyway?!
The audience claps nonetheless. Ruby is excited—all they have to do is shadow a Huntsman that’s moving to the southeast. They opt to check missions filed under “Search and Destroy”. There’s a perfect mission in the area they want to check…but it’s not available to first year students (why? The entire scene beforehand outlined that it would be first years going on these missions!) Ruby is musing on the possibility of mailing themselves there, and Ozpin’s voice sounds behind them.
With a very ~*significant*~ tone to his voice, he notes that there is a rather notable and extreme concentration of Grimm in Quadrant 5, aka “the southeast”, and thus it was deemed too much for first years. He then makes clear that he is totally aware of all the baddie-fighting they’ve been doing, such as at the docks and Junior’s club, buuuuut since he imagines they’ll somehow make their way to the “hideout” in the southeast no matter what job they choose, he decides to open up the Quadrant 5 mission purely so they can be the first ones to take it.
Lovely. I guess we’ve gotten a good look at Ozpin’s idea of “scouts”.
Ruby promises not to let him down, although he cautions them to stay close to the Huntsmen they shadow and do as he says. He bids them good luck.
We cut to them strolling around outside, just as someone runs by, shouting “Team CFVY is back!” Team ‘Coffee’, being Velvet Scarlatina’s team, if you will remember from the Volume 2 opening. Blake strolls up to Velvet, asking if she’s okay, and Velvet mentions she was fine, thanks to Yatsuhashi (the big guy with the sword walking behind her). Weiss says their mission was supposed to end a week ago, and asks what happened. Velvet clarifies that nothing went wrong, it’s just that there were that many Grimm. She quickly clarifies that, since “you first years” (meaning Velvet is a second-year or above), are just shadowing Huntsmen, so they should be fine. Another damper on the atmosphere accomplished, Velvet then leaves. Ruby decides to try and be hopeful, right on time to find that the ‘genuine huntsman’ they’re so excited to hunt with is Oobleck.
Roll credits!
As soon as the opening intro is done, we are presented with a shot of RWBY looking highly unsettled:
Their distress at finding that they will be shadowing Oobleck continues from last episode, and he is now telling them thusly:
Oobleck then zooms off, as they’re already three minutes behind schedule.
Seeing a problem already? I am. Oobleck first tells the girls the bags aren’t necessary because they won’t be establishing a base—then tells them they’re going to be making camps. Those two things aren’t so different that you can just say that—there’s a reason the word “base camp” exists, you know. No, they obviously won’t be establishing a permanent base outside of city limits, because why on earth would they? Not to mention, yes, they would need bags—if you’re packing essentials, why wouldn’t they? Setting up camp will still require them to pack accordingly.
*looking off to the side* And Oobleck’s motor mouth thing is wearing thin, especially when his voice actor is notably stumbling over some of the words. Anyway.
RWBY aren’t too enthused, evidently considering Oobleck to be…something of a disappointment and a cramp to their “saving the world” style (it’s “saving the world”, now??? When did we establish that?! There’s no global threat that they know of! They don’t even know of national or international threats! The only thing they know so far is that dust robberies are concentrated in Vale, when did we get this far?!)
Nora, walking up with JPR, would also like to inquire, but only as to how RWBY are saving the world without including them. Jaune wants to know where they’re going. Ruby answers that it’s “just outside the kingdom”, as are JNPR, who are shadowing the sheriff of a nearby village. They set out tomorrow—which prompts Sun and Neptune (and only Sun and Neptune) to pop up out of nowhere mentioning that they can party with them tonight.
Sun and Neptune, it seems, are shadowing a detective in the inner city, but also tomorrow. Jaune is awed by this, which should tell you all you need to know about how underwhelming that is. Sun admits that this seemed like a good opportunity to check out the kingdom when it’s normal, and not unraveling around them because of exploding fireworks or giant robots.
Say, that is a good idea, isn’t it? Going around town, seeing our setting...seeing how a faunus like Sun gets treated by the wider public…generally building your world. I mean, it’d be a lot more practical than info-squirting for a minute and a half at a time on certain weeks. Definitely a better idea than spending episode after episode on campus setting up a prom.
Before anyone can respond, Oobleck calls from the airship that they’re now four minutes late. Everyone stands around awkwardly.
They then part ways, and…we cut to the airship flying off. Weiss, hanging onto an oh-shit bar with the rest of her team, comments that Oobleck didn’t seem like a fighting type. He agrees that he’s more into academic pursuits, but has definitely had his share of “tussles”.
B: Those are truffles.
R: Like the sprout?
Y: Those are Brussels.
Hehe, that actually made me smile. After some banter, Oobleck reveals to us this: the southeast quadrant outside of Vale is home to one of the kingdom’s “greatest failures”, a place called Mountain Glenn that is home to deep woods and caves, that was an expansion of Vale that was unfortunately overrun by Grimm, and is now abandoned—and a suitable location for a hideout.
The airship drops them off, and we get a good look at Mountain Glenn while Oobleck sips his thermos:
Just as Oobleck is telling them that as of now they will need to listen to follow his instructions to the letter, and is ready to give them their first instructions, he catches sight of Ruby…with a backpack on. Ruby, when reminded she was told to leave her things behind, counters that he hadn’t told them to listen to them yet…so she didn’t.
In a plausible story, Ruby would quickly get demerits or suspension for this stunt. Instead, Zwei reveals himself and Oobleck is just as taken with him as anyone else, declaring him to be a useful asset thanks to his canine sense of smell and hearing, and thus Ruby is a “genius” for bringing him along.
*sigh* Nevermind, just move along…
The instructions are as such: this quadrant has been marked as a Grimm activity hotspot, so it’s time to get to clearin’ em out. He continues that the attraction to negativity (“Sadness. Envy. Loneliness. Hatred.”) which he cites as probably attributes of the group they suspect to be hiding here.
…? Okay, so not only does merely having probably-malicious intent magnetize Grimm to your general location, but somehow these hostiles have managed not to get wiped out by them? Are the Grimm just meandering around, knowing there are people nearby, but unable to get up the energy today to kill them?
Oobleck’s hope is that a nearby Beowulf specimen will lead them back to its back and the pack will lead them to its prey, which similarly seems at odds with the whole ‘kill any nearby humans’ aspect of Grimm. True to my point, this particular Beowulf’s pack arrives promptly, with intent to kill.
So, like I said, they get to clearin’ em out. So there’s a fight scene.
For some reason I can’t discern, the shots of the four girls carving up the Grimm wolfpack are given double- and triple-takes and framed by black margins, and set to woodwind music, like some parody of old-school anime. I’m not sure what this is supposed to be referencing, but I’m very sure it’s a lot of effort for a very weak joke.
Don’t think I missed that while we finally got some gore, more than half of the Grimm reacted to blades being drawn through them by just falling over in one piece.
Evisceration Evasion: 3
Easy peezy, Ruby says. Oobleck suspects, however, that this was only the first wave. So, more fighting!
A few cuts later, while Oobleck is drinking from his thermos and studying some weeds, the girls are now visibly tired, having cleared out an unspecified number of Grimm over the course of who knows how long. Still no sign of any hideout or criminal operations.
Yang vocally expresses her disappointment and perhaps resentment that they’ve been fighting nonstop but have yet to see Oobleck lift a weapon. He waves this off, as he’s got his own observational expertises to perform, and he reminds them that hey, they signed up for this.
Another scene cut, with more Grimm being felled. Oobleck decides that now is the time for characterization, thus asking Yang why she chose this line of work. Yang’s answer, though she takes a second to give it, is simple: she’s a thrill-seeker, and this line of work offers her the chance to indulge that, while also offering the bonus of helping people out.
He asks the same question of Weiss, since it’s not like she needs the extra work. Weiss is much readier, and responds that, as a Schnee, she has a legacy to uphold, and since she’s good at fighting, she has the duty to do so.
As for Blake, she sees too much wrong with the world, from inequality to corruption, for her to not take action to stop it—but she has no answer as to how.
Note that one character in particular was not asked this question.
The fighting is done for the day only when sunset is upon them. Oobleck orders them to set up camp in a nearby building, save Ruby, who he wants to secure the perimeter with him. Rather than do so, however, he takes her to a cliff overlooking a vast expanse of wetland, which gives us a glimpse at these babies:
These are called Goliaths, and they are confirmed to be Colossal Titan-sized at around 200 feet. Oobleck reminds Ruby that these Grimm, which are hundreds of years old, are too smart to simply attack humans mindlessly. Likewise, Ruby doesn’t have the power to take them out, and none of them do right now. Ruby wants to know, if these Grimm are so wary of humans, what they’re doing so close to Vale. Oobleck responds that they’re waiting.
Ruby, as they begin walking back, asks why Oobleck wanted to become a Huntsman. He responds that lives could have been saved in places like Mountain Glenn, and he sees it as his duty to prevent further losses by learning and passing on his learnings. Simply put, he sees nothing else he could want to be.
We cut to WBY around a fire. Yang is lamenting that they didn’t find anything, and Blake responds that luck just ran out on them this time. Weiss complains that her answer to Oobleck today was not necessarily what she meant, and the three girls express a collective lack of certainty in themselves and their own goals. Oobleck and Ruby walk in, and Oobleck orders three to sleep and one to keep watch—Ruby volunteers.
But this is not the end of the introspection.
R: Hmm. No, he didn’t. Weird. Oh well, goodnight guys.
WBY find themselves laying around the campfire, all silent but definitely awake. Ruby comforts Zwei, who notices the howling of Grimm wolves, and is luckily not at all in need of any supervision or a leash to keep him out of their clutches.
She promises him things will be better tomorrow, and the scene cuts to black as the episode ends.
Well! I think…yeah, I think we have space enough for just one more episode! May as well make up for the small World of Remnants post with a longer recap. Let’s go ahead with:
We open up not on RWBY, but on Ironwood, looking out over the horizon of Vale as an airship passes. Glynda is walking up behind him. She asks him if he had trouble sleeping. He mentions, while squeezing his left arm with his gloved right one, that his arm was acting up.
Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge: 1
Just gonna drop that there. Stop that. Don’t lampshade how you didn’t have any other clothing modeled for these characters.
She asks him what’s wrong, and Ironwood mentions that he, both of them, have trusted Ozpin for years. But he can’t help but feel, he says, like he’s keeping them in the dark. Glynda tells him not to be ridiculous, pointing out that the two of them happen to be more in-the-know than everyone else. Ironwood says that this only makes it worse. He can’t believe a man he trusts this much would act so “passively”. Glynda puts a hand on his arm and tells him that, though she admires him and his principles very much, that he should stop talking about trust and start showing it.
*takes off glasses and rubs temples*
Alright, so we’re calling him a hypocrite. Instead of reminding Glynda that, since they’re trusted enough to be part of a big benevolent shadow network that’s all hush-hush, it should be very concerning that Ozpin won’t tell be straightforward with them, he instead stays silent while Glynda reminds them that Ozpin has a lot of experience they don’t.
We fade back to Mountain Glenn. Ruby is eyeing some nearby Grimm through the scope attached to Crescent Rose. The other three girls are finally asleep, it seems, as is Oobleck…only for Yang to open her eyes and ask if Blake is awake, who says yes. Yang asks why she thinks they were all asked about their reasons for being Huntresses, and what he was trying to say. Blake futilely tries to suggest that maybe he was just curious.
Weiss, who is also awake, is the first to expound on the answer she gave.
B: That’s putting it lightly.
W: Which is why I feel the need to make things right. If I had taken a job in Atlas, it wouldn’t have changed anything. My father was not the start of our name, and I refuse to let him be the end of it.
Very wise and noble convictions, and moreover, ones that put her more in line with Blake’s own ideals instead of at odds with them. No, we’re not going to forget that she was racist And Now She’s Not, but this is definitely a step in the right direction. Now, on to Blake’s, which is where the real meat comes in:
Y: I’m sure you’ll figure it out. You’re not one to back down from a challenge, Blake.
B: But I am! I do it all the time. When you learned I was a faunus, I didn’t know what to do, so I ran. When I realized my oldest partner had become a monster, I ran. Even my semblance—I was born with the ability to leave behind a shadow of myself…an empty copy that takes the hit while I run away.
Yeah, it’s been a while since we saw Adam, hasn’t it? Since he was revealed a year and a half ago, almost two years by this point, I think it’s important that we hear from him soon. Also, I want you guys to pay attention to the words I bolded up there, “mentor” and “monster”. I will have a lot to say about those later, so just keep those in the back of your mind, alright?
B: She’s only two years younger. We’re all kids.
Y: Well, not anymore…I mean, look where we are. In the middle of a warzone and armed to the teeth?
B: It’s the life we chose.
W: It’s a job. We all had this romanticized vision of being a Huntress in our heads, but at the end of the day, it’s a job to protect the people. And whatever we want, will have to come second.
The camera moves to show Oobleck, smiling. And that’s where the introspection ends. This has provided us a good insight into the characters…now we just need a direction for them to go in with this as a takeoff point.
Some time later, the fire has burned down to embers, and Ruby has fallen asleep. She wakes up when she feels and hears Zwei moving. Despite her protests, Zwei takes off, and Ruby has to get up to follow. She takes her scythe and moves, but only finds Zwei on a nearby rooftop taking a pee. Just as she’s retrieving him, though, she hears voices.
Kneeling behind a wall, Ruby catches sight of two White Fang mooks, wielding guns, who seem to have heard her but are unsure if it was a person or a Grimm they heard. They opt, loud enough for her to hear, to finish their patrol and get back to base. Zing, there’s our plot thread!
Naturally, Ruby stealthily follows…without waking and alerting her team at all. Here Ruby, have one of these:
Reliable Leaders: 6
I know she kind of has to follow them now or risk losing them, but it also wouldn’t have taken too much time to just zip over and nudge Blake or Weiss awake or something.
Ruby sneaky-sneaks along behind them and, hey, is led right to their base. Hooray! She tries to dial her teammates and, oh, yep. No signal. Wonderful. The point stays. Aaaaaand just as she walks off to try and get them herself…the ground under her starts to sink.
Yep, the ground opens up right under Ruby’s feet and swallows her up. She saves Zwei, but at the cost of her scythe.
Ruby, as it happens, falls right into an underground city. Ruins, it seems, which are under the already-ruined ruins of Mountain Glenn. Unfortunately, the rooftop she lands on happens to be right next to a door behind which are guards who heard the disturbance. They barge in and back her against the ledge with their guns.
Well, no big deal, this is Ruby we’re talking, right? These are just mooks, she can handle ‘em no problem.
...Are you fucking kidding me?!
Pay No Attention to the Man Behind the Veil: 10
Right, take away her scythe so this can happen. It’s one thing for her to not be as good a fighter without her scythe, it’s quite another for her to be totally kneecapped! Not having her scythe shouldn’t mean this shrimp fry should be able to just lay her flat on her ass with one punch! Is she a capable warrior worthy of being shot ahead two years or not?! Even Jaune doesn’t become absolutely paperweight when deprived of his weapons!
This is, unfortunately, the sort of bullshit that’s going to result in a very long Band-Aid count track.
We cut back to Yang. She’s awake, and is ready to tell Weiss to take over watch duty when she notices Ruby’s absence. She alerts the others, and Oobleck tells them to grab their weapons and move out.
Cutting back to Ruby, we find her being dragged off by the mooks through the ruins, finding a huge White Fang operation. A Paladin mech prototype is visible lifting crates. Still not letting that go, by the way, they can’t possibly have those. Nearby mooks are also hefting around what are revealed to be explosive charges.
One of the mooks holding Ruby calls out to “boss”, and who should answer but the voice of Roman Torchwick?
Cutting back to the team, we find them discovering Ruby’s scythe right next to a hole in the ground. Oobleck explains that this makes sense—trying to build an expansion to Vale would’ve required transit, meaning metro tunnels which, along with the encroaching Grimm forces, meant a lot of people spent a good bit of time underground, explaining the undercity.
He exposits more—Mountain Glenn’s underground approach worked for a time, until an explosion opened up another cavern filled with subterranean Grimm. After that, the kingdom sealed off the tunnels, leaving the residents to die.
Elaborate subway system leading into Vale, you say? Oh wait, hang on, what the fuck?!
Make no mistake, this is him explaining, not reasoning and inferring—he knew this. This is historic material. Why on earth did he have them searching all day for something they weren’t finding instead of taking the obvious route and looking under the surface?
Ill Logic: 28
Reliable Leaders: 7
God damn it.
Anyway, the episode ends on the dire note that Ruby is probably in serious shit.
Which is where we’re stopping. This is a comfortable length for a recap, and it leaves us free to handle the last two episodes of the volume as a package deal without overflowing. See you then!
Counts:
- Jaune: 16
- It Was Right There: 3
- Fauxminism: 6
- Hypocrisy: 8
- Ice Cream Queens: 0
- Reliable Leaders: 7 + 1
- Prowling Wolf Fallacy: 1
- Prowling Wolf Fallacy: 1
- Threatening Enemies: 3
- Love to Be a Part of It Someday: 10
- Your Fight Scene Sucks: 10 + 2
- Evisceration Evasion: 3
- Evisceration Evasion: 3
- Ill Logic: 28
- Pay No Attention to the Man Behind the Veil: 10 + 2
- Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge: 1
- Band-Aid Brigade: 1
- Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge: 1
- RSVP: 23
- Road to Nowhere: 6
- Y.A.S. Queen: 3
11 - Volume 2, World of Remnant | Table of Contents | Volume 2 Finale
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Date: 2021-03-03 12:27 am (UTC)From:That's if they realize they're using the subterranean tunnels. Even Oobleck, who has a doctorate in history, didn't immediately think of the tunnels. Oobleck states that the tunnels were sealed off, likely by collapsing them so the Grimm couldn't just dig back through, so they're not going to come to mind without knowing that the WF has been there long enough to excavate the tunnels and restore the train lines.
Outdated information how? Ruby may not have obtained the information last night, but it was still recent enough that it's highly inconceivable that the enemy hideout could've been moved to a different site on short notice without anyone getting wind of it.
They moved IN without anyone noticing (because Ozpin apparently does not regularly sent scouting parties to anywhere bandits could hole up; thank you, Ozpin). It would also depend on the size of the force they're scouting out--if it's a small group, again, they can rabbit off quickly. Even if it's a large group, given that they're a guerilla force, they're going to have experience with having to move quickly or hide effectively because that's how guerilla forces operate.
Why, no seriously , are you assuming any movement from Ironwood has to be a gigantic display that will undoubtedly show the entire hand? An assault force doesn't tell the enemy anything other than "we're here to crush you" and they will be doing that too quickly for the enemy to discern any other information. They're also in an isolated location that not only is accessible by air, but by subterranean means. Unseal the caverns' metro tunnels and send a strike force right down the path the enemies have chosen to use and surprise them. Seriously, you are falsely equating "taking swift decisive action" with "big slow brawny attack that can be easily ducked under".
*tired* Aside from Penny, please name me one time Ironwood handles something subtly and discreetly in this volume. There's a reason why Ozpin says "the flag bearers or the scouts." Again, they don't know that the tunnels are in play because when they sealed them off, they did something to the tunnels that would keep Grimm from just digging through--reminder that Mountain Glenn's last-ditch effort to survive was because they accidentally uncovered a cave of SUBTERRANEAN Grimm. The reason there's still a wall between the train and the city of Vale proper is because they're planning a surprise attack to maximize the panic and confusion that'll bring along the Grimm (along with using the wall fragments themselves as shrapnel.
...How? The scenario you just outlined relies on the enemy knowing Ironwood knows their hand, which they shouldn't because they didn't anticipate RWBY and friends getting their information. As far as anyone else on the opposite side is aware (including Torchwick, because he's dumb and didn't see this coming), their operation has remained completely and totally secret.
Go look up how team RWBY found out about their HQ being in the southeast. It involved Torchwick chasing them in a giant mech. Ozpin sending team RWBY over there is extremely stupid with that in mind, but he presumably doesn't know that they were discovered by Torchwick because plot (and some other reasons, but I'm saving that for my main post on the comm).
Reinfo--what?! Infrastructure?! What sense does it make to reinforce defenses if those defenses have already been penetrated?! I'd also like to remind you that they can do both. There's no reason why they have to choose defense or offense, the problem is that Ozpin doesn't want offense. You are falling prey to the same fallacy Ozpin and the writing team themselves have. If you sit there turtling and tidying up your walls when you know the enemy has already gotten in and possibly compromised them, that's virtually no different than allowing them free reign! At least if you take action to counterattack, you know they have to put their attention on defending themselves and not on royally screwing up your city from the inside!
And if you don't reinforce your defenses after they've been breached, then they're going to keep getting breached because they're weak points now, and it's going to bleed away your strength. Right now, they know that Vale has been infiltrated. They don't know by how many forces. I agree that Ozpin could start preparing to send out a skirmishing force, but sending out everything they have means they have fewer people inside to defend if we have a "goldcloaks from A Song of Ice and Fire" scenario.
Look, I'm going to be honest with you here: I tried looking up "prowling wolf fallacy" and nothing came up; I legitimately think you made it up. That said, the fallacy itself is a fallacy because if you're in a situation with a wolf where you only have two options are those are "hide" and "attack," then quite frankly, you're... you've somehow managed to corner yourself in situation where those are the only two options, and that's BAD. Aside from how you should avoid wolves like the plague because they tend to come in packs (yes, I know this is a metaphor, work with me here), there's other options, like setting a trap to expend the wolf's energy so you can get the fuck out of there, or so they're at least easier to take out. They have other options, and the only reasons they didn't have time to enact them was because Ruby stepped on the wrong piece of ground. Which brings me to my last point here:
I know there's no danger of spoiling this for you, since you've already seen the show, so I know for a fact that you know how this volume (and the next one) ends and know exactly how this blows up in Ozpin's face and proves pretty much every counterpoint I laid out here. So I don't know why you're taking this tract at all.
Because a. Ozpin's actions make sense and b. there would have been an even bigger bloodbath if Ironwood's forces hadn't been stationed in the city. If Ironwood had gone charging off like he wanted to, Torchwick would have started the attack and then there would be fewer defenders to keep the Grimm from overrunning the city. Ozpin keeping Ironwood's fleet right there meant that they were able to quickly move to surround the area under attack and drive back the forces long enough for Glynda to show up and reinforce the defenses to keep the Grimm out. And yes, Ironwood WOULD throw everything he has at it. You've watched the series up through volume 6, when has he not treated everything like a nail that needs to be hammered with great blunt force. Name me one time.
Wait, nope, I lied, one more thing:
And another thing--you talk as if the only military here is Ironwood's. It isn't. This is Vale, Ozpin's kingdom. Ironwood has forces he can donate, but ultimately, it makes very little sense to say that Ironwood contributing would leave Vale vulnerable. Vale has its own military and huntsmen. Even if it were just Oz, he'd be able to act decisively without emptying out his entire nation's defensive powers.
Vale does NOT have its own military. They have a militia that's made up of huntsmen, which will take time to recall if they're out on missions already. We've seen that with Mistral. We also saw with Mistral that the headmaster does not have the deciding say-so on whether or not to commit forces to an attack; they have to convince the rest of the council, of which the headmaster only has one seat. So yes, aside from the teachers and whatever Huntsmen happen to be available at the time, Ironwood's forces are a big part of the defenses then. And while WE, the VIEWERS, wouldn't know that, the characters would.
no subject
Date: 2021-03-03 02:42 am (UTC)From:Oobleck realized this after a single day of being in the area and as I pointed out in the post itself, should have remembered it to begin with and not when it was cinematically appropriate. The point is, it's not knowledge he had to stumble on.
Except they aren't a guerilla force. They are extremists who have been taking potshots at dust shops, have primarily been working robberies on this continent, and there are no neighboring cities' ruins we've heard about, so they only place they'd be "rabbiting off" too is deeper into caves that could still be attacked or would subject them to Grimm attacks, or open no-man's-land which belongs entirely to the Grimm. I'm serious--where do you think they'll "rabbit off" to? The only non-hostile place they could go is right back inside the kingdom limits! They also moved in over an unspecified, but likely very long time, because, you know, establishing a full-on base ready to launch an attack takes time. There's no reason to assume they could vanish into thin air in the time it takes for a few airships to swing over, unload a shit ton of artillery, and leave.
Penny happens to be a very good example, as opposed to his so-far established example of fucking up via indiscretion of, uh, let's see, zero. Maybe you don't like Ironwood, but I'm trying to think outside of the in-story perspective, aka, not swallowing the tantrum Glynda and Oz threw painting Ironwood as brash and incautious. Sorry.
That doesn't mean they wouldn't know at all. It just means they have another defense to examine now they've been penetrated and compromised. Physically impassible by conventional means does not mean it isn't on the table.
Yessss, and? The point I'm trying to make here is that you're trying to pin down any decisive action Ironwood or Ozpin could take against the enemy hideout as an inherently bad idea because somehow, some way, the enemy will surely turn it against them, and that's simply not true.
You do not seal up a wall to keep enemies out when the enemies are inside the wall with you. This should not be a difficult concept to grasp. I'm all for defense, I just want it understood that focusing exclusively on it, without even being able to identify the infiltration or compromised material, and giving the enemy time to pounce on it, is a very stupid idea.
Got no idea what that means, but again: they don't have to send everything they have. Why on earth would they need to? It's a hideout, not an entire enemy nation.
That's because I did. You're saying this like I tried to cite something I invented for an essay, and I didn't. It's a subcount. If it were a trope or other established convention, I'd have linked it.
No! I'm not going to work with you here because that's what the goddamn count is meant to tally! It is a count designed to tally how Rooster Teeth have written only two options and completely failed to account for why both should be considered, nevermind more than the ones presented! How did you see me lay out how the fallacy here is about falsely seeing only one available path, and say this?
Can you please try to listen to what I'm saying before you start trying to prove me wrong?
I'm straight up about to just call you on being bad at math. This is narrow-minded as hell, why do you keep acting like any attacking force must comprise enough resources to leave the home base vulnerable? That's not an accurate portrayal of military resources or strategy.
Yes, I have. And this happens to be Volume Two. I am well within my rights to consider only material shown at that point in plots shown at that point! If anything, I don't know why you want to involve material written five years afterwards in a discussion on plausible alternate plots taking place back here. At this point in time, here is our cite-able evidence: a) Glynda throwing a foot-stomping, insulting tantrum designed to paint Ironwood as brash and bombastic and b) Ironwood's approach to Penny, which has so far remained top-secret, as it should (but won't be for long because of Ozpin's failures). Cite-able evidence as to Ironwood only being able to answer a problem with the maximum, most inadvisable force necessary? So far, none.
I told you this before: it's okay that you've got foreknowledge of future volumes, but there's no sense bringing it up before we get to them.
''In the ensuing battle, the King of Vale personally led his army alongside Vacuo's.'' There is record of Vale having a military because Vale has participated in wars. Restructuring may have happened in the wake, but there's no evidence of Vale dissolving its military as a whole. Even if in modern-day, their defending force is comprised of Huntsmen and is smaller than a standard defending force, the difference is negligible. They have Huntsmen, they could use them.
This is where I'm cutting things off. I don't mind alternative takes or people pointing out when I've made a mistake, but this is getting a little out of hand. You've understood the important part about Ozpin being dumb here, but you've got it in your head that I'm wrong about Ironwood and so you have to sit here and rub my nose to the grindstone 'til I get why, and it's not taking when you've told me so much that's speculative and assumptive.
If this is the way you're going to approach our disagreements, please feel free to skip the rest of the spork. I find you abrasive, and I really don't care to continue in this vein.