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surgeworks) wrote2023-06-28 07:50 pm
RWBY 38 – Volume 6, Episodes 2 and 3
37 – V3 Leak & V6 Short / V6E1 | Table of Contents | 39 – Volume 6, Episodes 3 and 4
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If you haven't been keeping up with the spork so far, now might be a very good time to start reading. We have some Moments(TM) rapidly approaching.
The first thing we get is an update on Cinder.
She’s alive, drowning at the lake at the bottom of the ravine that makes up the vault underneath Haven. A flash of maiden powers later, and she’s dragged herself up out of the water, coughing it out of her lungs and collapsing on the shore. She checks her powers, barely able to summon but a small flame in her hand, but smashing her Grimm fist in anger—apparently hard enough to shake rocks loose from the wall of the ravine…
And finding a way out in the process. Once free, she finds herself walking the dirt roads of Mistral, and doesn’t get far before collapsing again. A nearby woman sees her laying on the ground, and offers to help,
Until taking note of Cinder’s left arm. Cinder probably killed that chick.
Minor nitpick, but I note the second usage of the word “gods” as one would use “god” or “gosh” – the first one was uttered by Pilot Boi when he was panicking about his ship crashing. I know it’s an adjustment people make all the time in fanfiction, but it bugs me a lot to see it in the published world. C’mon, do better.
Anyway, we cut to a flashback for some reason, back in Mistral at RWBYJNPRQ’s cushy house.
R: …We need to take the relic to Atlas?
Everyone looks at Weiss.
W: …You’ve got to be joking.
Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge: 25
N: I mean, on the bright side, we finally get to get out of this house!
Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge: 26
Apparently, according to Qrow, you don’t just need the right maiden to open the vaults and take out the relic, you also need them to put it back and close it up.
Ren points out that the borders are closed, but Qrow reveals that Argus, and the Atlesian military base there, is still active, and he’s banking on convincing them to give them a ride to Ironwood. Jaune asks what the relic actually does, and Ozpin noticeably hesitates to answer.
According to him, the Relic of Knowledge—which grows to its base size when removed from his hip—can answer any question, a power which impresses the surrounding students, and rightfully so. There are stipulations: it can’t tell the future, which makes sense. Something that makes way less sense is that the lamp will only answer three questions once every hundred years.
………What?!
This almighty, super-duper-important relic, which has been the source of a huge amount of conflict and bloodshed so far, can only answer three questions per century?!
What the fuck is the point of putting all these precautions in place for an item that only matters that rarely? Can you even use it right now? How long will it be before Salem could even factor this dingy little lamp into any plan of hers? Ozpin says it can’t be used yet, but he doesn’t say by how long.
Actually, you know what, I’m asking the wrong questions. Why was such an arbitrary limit imposed on this all-powerful relic that is so goddamn important it has to be secured right now, today, this very second? I know the basic reason—so that the heroes can’t have the answers to literally any problem in their very hands and thus the story doesn’t lose all tension—
Pay No Attention to the Man Behind the Veil: 31
—but why that limit, specifically? That just turns this fucking piece of shit relic into the epitome of “more trouble than it’s worth”!
If you wanted to put a limit on this thing so that it doesn’t render any and all conflicts trivial, why didn’t you try some other variation of limitation? Like, maybe only one question can be asked by any one person? That means RWBYJNPRQ have a maximum of ten questions they can ask, and no more. Easy enough to work around so long as the person who asks is willing to share. Or, if that’s still too overpowered, try this—receiving the answer to a question knocks a person out for some undisclosed amount of time, because of the information being sifted through their head, or some such, making the relic risky to use in the wrong situations.
It Was Right There: 19
But every hundred years??? Why??? What is the reason??? That’s stupid!!!
Back in the present day, Ruby is collecting…umm, ammo? Out of the snow. Yang, trying to pull her motorcycle out of the snowbank, is throwing a hissy fit about being stranded at 2/3 their usual strength plus having to accommodate some old bat. Said old bat pipes up on hearing this.
M: My name is Maria Calavera! And I am not defenseless! I’m just a little hard of hearing! And, blind [she taps her mechanical visor] without my eyes…that are in desperate need of repair. …Okay, I’m starting to see your point.
Behold RWBY’s first Latina character! Who, to my knowledge, will not be getting any RSVP points, at least this volume. She’s not a part of any racial allegory, she’s just an ethnic character who’s allied with the heroes. And I love her.
Qrow tells Yang to stop bitching, because bitching invites Grimm. I am irritated enough with this show that I feel like handing that Prowling Wolf points, but it’s not a moment involving willful self-sabotage. Besides, that point is coming in a minute anyway.
Blake points out that they’ll attract Grimm either way thanks to the lamp. This, too, gets Yang aggravated. She points her gaze toward Ozpin, reminding him that he promised no more lies and half-truths.
Band-Aid Brigade: 15
Yep. This is around the time where Rooster Teeth finally got the picture that their fanbase weren’t buying the whole “Ozpin is still on the up and up even if he does creepy things” schtick, a problem they agitated when their last attempt to smooth it over (“How dare you give people the power to turn into birds at will!”) was rightfully met with confusion and more irritation. So that angle is finally in the trash. And in case you’re curious—no, I am very firm on this not being a case of something fans just weren’t able to see being written. I am very sure it was written in as they went.
Oscar, who is helping Maria Calavera walk, agrees that it’s probably time for explanations. Ozpin pretty promptly takes over his body, and no, he does not ask.
Reliable Leaders: 36
Ozpin tries to say that he didn’t lie per se, and that now’s not the time to start interrogations—but he stands before RWBY, a united front that have collectively put their foot down. So, he gets to expositing:
Oz: It is true that the Grimm are attracted to the relics. It’s faint, but undeniable. I believe it has to do with their origin, but I’m not entirely sure. Regardless, I feared that making you all aware would only add anxiety and negativity. It seemed like the safer option.
Prowling Wolf Fallacy: 15
Yeah, just because Ozpin is being examined for clinging to his Prowling Wolf nonsense does not mean it won’t be getting points. Here he is, yet again taking any opportunity to act like he’d be endangering people by letting them know they’re already in danger, no matter how important or pertinent the information.
Weiss is about done with people trying to decide what’s best for her, and Yang asks if this is why Ozpin cooked up that nonsense for the media about Lionheart valiantly taking the bullet for the safety of his school. He turns his back and confirms that it was, and defends that decision as not only keeping negative emotions out of the Mistrali population, but casting Lionheart’s legacy in the shape of his many years of upright service rather than the “missteps” of his last years.
Yang calls this for the bullshit it is—Lionheart’s “missteps” engineered the fall of a kingdom and innumerable deaths, including those of their friends. She tries to insist that Ozpin loosen his grip on all important information and just trust them, which causes an irate Ozpin to ask if they think Lionheart was the first—if they think he didn’t say the exact same thing.
You know bud, if multiple people have betrayed you to Salem, it might point towards the idea that she’s not the problem, you are.
Oz: I’m sorry, but you have to understand that my behaviors are backed by experience.
They’re backed by a brain hemorrhage.
He goes into a tirade on the reasons for his secrecy, but stops short when he realizes that he doesn’t ask the relic. Ruby reveals it, saying it got lost in the crash, but I choose to believe she had taken it off of him when he wasn’t looking, which I am proud to say means that Ruby has finally grown braincells! Everybody congratulate her. Ozpin asks for the relic, but she doesn’t give it to him.
R: So all those times you talked about having faith in humanity… That was just for everyone else?
Hypocrisy: 25
Ozpin denies this, and says that the relic is a powerful object and should be “his burden to bear”. He’s called on that, too, as he told them it couldn’t even be used right now. Just as Ozpin seems to be prepared to take the lamp from Ruby, he stops short, Oscar wrestling back control of his body. Oscar, struggling to speak, tries to tell them Ozpin is afraid they’ll find out what he’s done, what he’s hiding.
*throwing hands up into the air* Backstory time, everyone! It’s time for another exposition episode! Don’t you just love those?
*darkly* And my, what a fucking expose this one is…
Os: [Falling to the ground, visibly struggling to speak] Her name is Jinn… Say her name to summon her!
A fierce wind has started to blow, and the lamp has started to glow. Ruby speaks the name, and the snow and wind abruptly stop, astonishing everyone.
The lamp starts to emit blue smoke, and floats out of her hands. Once it’s some distance away, the plumes of smoke coalesce into…!
…A naked blue woman wearing gold chains, which as I have heard, was blatantly ripped off of some franchise or other, which would not be surprising in the least.
This is Jinn, who asks what knowledge Ruby seeks before we cut to a new scene.
Out in the rainy streets of Mistral stalks Cinder Fall, wearing the outfit of the woman she probably killed earlier. While walking by a newsboard, she hears an update about Hazel Rainart, Mercury Black, and Emerald Sustrai, who have not yet been apprehended, and raises her hood appropriately. She seems to have found her way to the criminal underworld of Mistral, as many market-goers are conducting their business wearing masks and talking in hushed voices. She sees an artistic depiction of a spider in a web on a nearby beam of wood, and makes a decision.
Entering what seems to be a saloon of some kind, she finds many people bearing a tattoo of the same design—this is a gang’s headquarters. One of those people is a woman eating a parfait at the desk at the end of the hall, who lets Cinder know not to approach any further, in a delightful southern drawl:
???: That’s far enough.
Two nasty-looking thugs walk up, and Cinder presents a bag of lien, which clears her to speak with the lady. Cinder seems doubtful.
C: You’re Little Miss Malachite?
M: I’m ‘Little Miss Gon’-Skin-You-Alive’ if you ever take that tone with me again.
This is our first plus size character. Like, of the series as a whole. Not exactly on time, but not the butt of jokes, or implied to be unattractive, or given tiresome comedic elements, and apparently a figure of fear and respect. It seems we are indeed improving. Baby steps, but yes. This is the gang leader known as Little Miss Malachite, and she is amazing and I love her.
Miss Malachite comments that this lien must be Cinder’s life savings—Cinder simply says it was someone’s, which appears to garner her some small measure of respect, at the cost of an equal amount of patience. She asks what Cinder wants.
Cinder presents a scroll, and shows pictures of RWBY and JNR. Miss Malachite is amenable to helping her track them down, and laughs when Cinder jumps at a nearby noise. As she tells it, she used to be afraid of spiders, so what did she do? No, not learn to kill them—make the spiders work for her. Cinder looks around at the gangsters nearby, and seems to be appreciative of the info net Malachite has. The latter asks for a week to find her prey, and Cinder makes to leave.
As she’s leaving, however, she quiets one of her thugs, who reminds her they already know where Cinder’s targets are, as Hazel had already come by looking for them. She’s chosen to deny Cinder that information long enough to see who, in turn, might be looking for her.
Back at the crash site, Maria Calavera is tapping her ‘eyes’, apparently not believing them given the sight before her.
???: I am Jinn, a being created by the god of light to aid humanity in its pursuit of knowledge. I’ve been graced with the ability to answer three questions every one hundred years. You’re in luck, as I am still able to answer—
Oz: THAT’S ENOUGH!
Jinn continues anyway, saying she can still answer two questions this era. After a few moments of silence in which everyone stares at Ozpin for his outburst, she simply says it’s a pleasure to see him again.
Ozpin, from the ground and separated from the lamp by four girls and one old lady, asks of her “Please, don’t.” Qrow tries to intervene—only to be stopped by the point of Myrtenaster, and even Blake and Yang are prepared to hinder Qrow, in what happens to be the most delicious display I’ve ever seen. I wish they’d beat him up.
Instead, he puts up his hands and says to Ruby to do whatever she thinks is right. Ruby then speaks Jinn’s name, and the latter contemplates her, while Ozpin, from the ground, bares his teeth.
R: …What is Ozpin hiding from us?
Oz: NO!
He dashes towards her, but too late!
Ruby’s question has apparently been accepted, and she finds herself transported to a blank white void. The others do, too, but none of them can see or hear each other. Ruby says Weiss’, Blake’s, and Yang’s names—while Yang says only Blake’s, and Weiss says only Ruby’s, and Blake says only Yang’s.
Okay, what are you idiots doing? I mean, I know what you’re doing—you’re gay-baiting.
How To Piss Off Gay People: 16
But a second earlier, everyone just saw Ozpin rushing to attack Ruby Rose. That’s who everyone should be concerned about—particularly Yang, whose highest priority at all times is the safety of her sister. Are we really going to sprinkle crumbs like this at the cost of the established characters? Seriously, have some class.
J: Once upon a time…there stood a lonely tower…
A landscape comes rushing out of the void behind Blake, as Jinn continues.
J: …that sheltered a lonely girl…
Each of the characters is shown the same vision, and Ruby happens on a young, pretty blonde woman sitting at a dresser with a mirror.
J: …named Salem.
Dun dun dunnnnn!!!!!
The episode ends.
Get ready for the backstory, guys! And get ready for some bad, bad news.
Before we get into this, no, Salem being “the girl in the tower” does not mean all this crap was planned from Volume 3. We’ll find out why, later—but I just want this on the record, before someone comes in here complaining that I’m not connecting dots and seeing that Rooster Teeth are obviously masters of plot-weaving.
The story picks up with Jinn telling Ozpin’s story, more environments coalescing out of blue smoke.
J: Locked away by her cruel father, Salem was a girl who desired but one thing: freedom. She lived in a time when kings and their kingdoms were plentiful, when men and women were capable of greatness. And magic was a gift from the gods that all could wield.
Which is different from the present day how, exactly?
The Lovegood Fallacy: 11
J: And yet there she sat, within her tower.
Why? Is her daddy’s magic a lot stronger than hers? Explain!
J: Until one day, a legendary hero came to brave the challenges within the tower’s walls. The people of the lands knew him…as Ozma.
Ozpin’s original form, then.
J: Unlike those who had come before, this warrior was not driven by the prize of the young maiden’s hand. He fought only for righteousness, and his pure heart and courageous soul prevailed.
Ozma defeats the evil dad and frees Salem. Cue romance.
J: They escaped the wretched fortress. And yet, something bound them together. Ozma had been ready to give his life for justice countless times, but now saw a woman worth saving it for. And Salem, to her surprise, found her freedom not in the outside world she had yearned for, but in the eyes of the man who had saved her.
*dully* Lovely, charming, heterosexual, yadda yadda…
J: The two fell deeply in love, planned adventures around the world, and lived happily ever after.
Kill me. Seriously.
J: Or at least, that’s what should have been. Ozma, the infallible hero of legend, fell ill. [We see a tear-stricken Salem crying over Ozma’s bedside.] And where all of the beasts and blades of the world had fallen short, a single sickness prevailed.
S: How could the gods let this happen?
J: The gods. Brothers of light and darkness, creation and destruction. Salem prayed that they would see the injustice that had befallen her love. And make things right.
Salem is shown traveling with Ozma’s staff to the “domain of light”, where she leaves an offering. Here, Jinn says, is where the elder brother dwelled and where mankind would “fall to ruin”.
Guys, check this out.
*bursts out laughing*
That’s the god of light? That’s the big man in charge, the elder brother, the being that embodies creation and goodness?! A blank ‘male’ character model with some deer horns added on top and colored yellow?!
You guys have gotten cheap beyond cheap! Half your models stolen, and the other half spray-painted yellow with googly eyes stuck on!
*falling on the floor laughing*
LuLaRwe: 15
Anyway, Salem begs the god of light to bring Ozma back to life. I’m sure you’ll be shocked to hear that he says no, because of some nonsense about the natural order and balance of life and death and blah blah fuckin’ blah. Where it gets interesting is when Salem, having been told no, takes the logical course of action and takes this matter up with the younger brother, the god of darkness.
LuLaRwe: 16
Yep. More ken dolls and googly eyes. Check out the memes that came outta this one, guys.
And here is the part where the narrative here starts to become…kinda fucked. Check out Jinn’s next line.
J: Salem understood it well. She told him of her loss, and professed the she knew only he could answer her prayers, all while careful to make no mention of his elder.
I remember frowning at this part. The first thing I thought of was a kid who gets told off because, when mom tells him no, he runs to dad and asks him next. Yes, kids should be told not to do that, but this is certainly not an inherent infraction, just one necessary for less headache between parents. We’ve not been told that there’s any godly laws in place saying that if you ask one brother and get told no, you’re sinning or committing evil by asking the other one. It’s just presented to us in such a way that I guess we’re supposed to assume it.
Fauxminism: 31
This may raise some eyebrows here—but we’re quickly going to see that this story is being told with the aim of casting Salem in the worst light possible, even if she didn’t…well, you’ll see.
The god of darkness is happy to bring Salem’s man back.
But, this pisses off the god of light, who storms in and throws a hissy fit that his brother dared bring someone back from the dead. Then, these two do something very dickish.
First, the god of light destroys Ozma once again, him disintegrating in Salem’s arms only seconds after she’d been reunited with him. The god of darkness brings him back again, and this process repeats as both gods get real ornery with each other…
Oh, lovely. Where’d you guys steal these models from?
The gods are prepared to squabble amongst themselves until the god of light points out that Salem only came to the god of darkness when the former rejected her. This makes both gods decide, well, Salem’s just the rotten-est little child ever, and she should be spanked.
The god of darkness destroys Ozma, and Salem sees him die again. Traumatized beyond her breaking point, she summons her magic, but the god of light overpowers her.
A cut to black later, and she’s dumped out back on the god of light’s altar at his spring.
GoL: When you first came to me, I did pity you. But it is clear now that your selfishness and arrogance have led you astray.
Fauxminism: 32
Salem’s latest course of action wasn’t selfishness or arrogance—it was defiance against gigantic jackasses who made her watch her loved one die over and over again, and snubbed her for having the nerve to appeal to someone else after the first god rejected her.
The GoL explains that he’s made her immortal.
Ill Logic: 101
*dryly* Oh, we’re going that route, huh? The whole “punishing someone by granting them limitless life, and limitless time to cause chaos because if you squint and tilt your head, maybe there’ll be a downside if and when they tired of it in a few millenia” route? Come on, now. That’s a plot device that’s been dumb pretty much every time it was used.
Ill Logic: 102
Hypocrisy: 26
That point being for the fact that apparently, bringing one man back to life is too much of a risk to “the balance of life and death”, but making one woman immortal until she “learns the value of life and death” totally isn’t.
J: Salem was a prisoner once again. Her fruitless attempts to reunite with Ozma eventually became nothing more than acts of spite and defiance against the gods.
Jinn says this while we are shown a silhouette of Salem attempting to stab herself to death.
Fauxminism: 33
J: …But perhaps the gods…were not as powerful as they seemed?
Oh, come on now, Rooster Teeth. Defiance against fate and divine will are themes much too conceptually wealthy to hang out with you and your crowd.
J: She had lied to them, turned them against one another.
She did nothing of the sort. She appealed her case with a different jury, is all.
Fauximinism: 34
J: They…were fallible. If she were to turn humanity against light and darkness, she could rid herself of their curse! Or at the very least, she could make them suffer.
An admirable goal, albeit one so drastically at odds with her current goal of total world extinction that I struggle to see how we’re going to get from A to B.
So, Salem starts up a rebellion. Note the wording.
J: Salem traveled from one kingdom to another, telling tales of how she stole immortality from the Gods, welcomed any swordsman to cut her down, and demonstrated her powers. With the kings and queens in awe, she pulled them deeper into her scheme. She painted them pictures of a time when they would no longer have to watch their loved ones wither and die, when they could claim the powers of their creators for themselves, and in turn, perfect their own design. All they needed to do was destroy their old masters.
“Pulled them deeper”, “her scheme”. She may have lied about how she stole the immortality, but she’s not exactly wrong about the gods of her world being gigantic dicks, and if you’re in doubt about that, give it a minute…
J: The gods had hoped that Salem would learn from her eternal curse, and she did. She learned that the hearts of men are easily swayed.
Is it really “easily swayed” if she offers herself up to be butchered and survive? That doesn’t seem very easy. At least give her that credit.
So Salem brings her altogether rather tiny rebellion force to the GoL’s altar:
She confronts the two all-powerful jackasses, who do not take kindly to like, maybe a hundred people brandishing weapons at them. She joins her people in their assault on the two gods—if nothing else, she’s no coward.
Their attack is hilariously ineffective. The dark god draws in their spells, and his counter-attack is orders of magnitude much greater than necessary. When it’s over, Salem alone remains, thoroughly defeated.
GoD: You thought there was no greater punishment we could bestow upon you?
I’m still not seeing where we got Salem the omnicidal entity of darkness from.
S: I’ll come back…! I’ll tell the rest of the world of this massacre! Build a new army!
Yeah! You tell those assholes!
GoD: You do not understand. There is no one left.
I—what?
GoD: You are all that remains of humanity.
WHAT?!
GoL: This planet was a beautiful experiment. But, it is merely a remnant of what it once was. We have learned from this failure. I hope that you will learn from yours. [vanishes]
COME AGAIN?!?!
S: No! You can’t leave! You can’t leave! Come back!
GoD: Still demanding things of your creators?
Then…he…
He blasts away from the planet and blows up the moon on the way out?
I—what? You… Wait a minute…
*dizzy, holding head*
You… You know what? Why don’t we just…leave it here for today? Yeah, why don’t we just take a break and pick this up later?
Uhh…I’ll be back.
Counts:
- Jaune: 52
- It Was Right There: 19
- Fauxminism: 34
- Hypocrisy: 26
- Reliable Leaders: 36 + 15
- Prowling Wolf Fallacy: 15
- Prowling Wolf Fallacy: 15
- Threatening Enemies: 23
- Love to Be a Part of It Someday: 75
- Your Fight Scene Sucks: 92 + 30
- Evisceration Evasion: 33
- Evisceration Evasion: 33
- Ill Logic: 102
- Pay No Attention to the Man Behind the Veil: 31 + 40
- Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge: 26
- Band-Aid Brigade: 14
- Wink Wink, Nudge Nudge: 26
- RSVP: 49
- Road to Nowhere: 17
- Y.A.S. Queen: 13
- Rooster Tease: 19
- LuLaRwe: 16
- The Lovegood Fallacy: 11
- How to Piss Off Gay People: 15
- Invisembl: 7
- Broke-Ass Clowns: 8
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37 – V3 Leak & V6 Short / V6E1 | Table of Contents | Volume 6, Episodes 3 and 4
Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
Also, I realized that the Oscar situation, fucked up as it is, basically gets even worse when you consider that Ozpin’s current issues were pretty much caused by the Brother Gods being so exceedingly petty that they'd not only repeatedly murder and reincarnate Ozma but be willing to drag Oscar, a fourteen year old, into this. (Like, can somebody just kill the Brother Gods? I’m pretty much rooting for Salem here given their gratuitous cruelty)
It really reminds me of Greek Mythology and some of the complaints raised by people who study it. I mean, even as an eight year old girl first getting into it (I had interesting tastes in reading, some not age appropriate in hindsight), I pretty much thought that the punishments for people who somehow wronged the gods could get disproportionate. Some were deserved if the perpetrator was sufficiently enough of an asshole, but most were pretty disproportionate, like Hera punishing the other women Zeus cheated with. I mean, the Brother Gods remind me of the worse moments of the Greek pantheon, though how they treated the Ozma situation is so horrendous that even the Greek pantheon would be horrified. Yes, even Hera.
I mean, the Star Wars prequels get a lot of flak for seemingly acting like Anakin was evil for not wanting Padme to die, but at least Revenge of the Sith made it clear that the problem was more Anakin’s methods in terms of killing innocent people, including children, to achieve his goal — and also showing that Anakin was so absorbed in the Dark Side that he forgot his original plan, which ended up indirectly contributing to Padme’s death. Not to mention the tie-in materials that do a good job of showing that the Jedi weren’t deliberately callous assholes (hell, I think fandom does unfortunately make the mistake of thinking the Jedi are assholes for the sake of being assholes, and some installments in Legends don’t help matters), but were just very flawed people coping with their trauma in a very fucked up way (Yoda’s rather bad advice to Anakin is shown to be a form of projection in the Revenge of the Sith novelization thanks to his own grief over Jedi who died during the Clone Wars, Mace Windu in Matthew Stover’s novelization is shown to deeply love the Republic and Anakin telling him about Palpatine’s true nature is basically the point where he just breaks, stuff like that).
In that sense, if they’d actually tried to portray the Brother Gods as actually characters, the Salem thing wouldn’t be that bad. Obviously take out the bit of them killing and resurrecting Ozma for the sake of petty revenge on Salem, but I don’t think it would have hurt to kind of explore the whole idea of them, say, feeling burdened by the experience: feeling sympathy for Salem, but also feeling bound to their oath to uphold the laws of life and death. (Plus, I don’t really know if anyone’s explored that theme before) And Salem could start out as well-intentioned as she was here, but maybe it’s her methods that pretty much go too far, e.g. someone innocent gets hurt, and the Brother Gods losing sympathy for her at least has a motive behind it. Hell, like with Pet Sematary, there could be some kind of catch whether you take the former route or not, like Ozma comes back physically but there’s something clearly wrong with him afterwards, whether he’s just not himself, or if he even basically comes back outright homicidal and Salem has to put him out of his (and everyone else’s) misery. Or (whether you take either route previously or even both) you could take the Infinity Train route and have it be that the Brother Gods are trying to teach Salem about moving on and accepting loss and change and that her actions are really just sabotaging herself and possibly innocent bystanders who didn’t do anything.
I mean, Miraculous Ladybug did have the main villain just want to revive his wife (before his motives went off the rails), but unfortunately, the catch involves routinely brainwashing innocent civilians just for the sake of getting the Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculouses, and even the result of him getting that would be him rewriting reality to get what he wanted, or in other words, causing the apocalypse. Star Wars Rebels had the World Between Worlds that could bring people back, but even then, it was less of an outright resurrection and more of causing a time travel paradox in a roundabout way (and of course, there was the issue of Palpatine showing up to make everything worse) — and even though Ezra, the main character, couldn’t use the World Between Worlds to save his mentor, he wasn’t punished as badly as Salem was here. (Probably because the Rebels writers aren’t sadists) Hell, Game of Thrones’ subplot with The Mountain, the Clone Wars bringing back Maul — they at least brought up the whole idea of the science of said resurrection having some pretty nasty implementation.
It’s a long list, but my point is, at least these stories did at least have a built-in explanation as to why resurrecting the dead is a terrible idea, and why bringing back a dead loved one (or outright shitheads like Gregor Clegane) doesn’t always work. RWBY doesn’t really have that at all from what I can see, so it just makes the Brother Gods look like assholes for the sake of being assholes. So it’s not just cruel and even sexist writing (as you pointed out), but it’s just mountains upon mountains of incompetence. I do like the idea of a sympathetic female villain, especially since we don’t get too many of those (or female villains in general; hell, even some of the worst female stereotypes in media history usually lean towards the Light Side). Like, the idea of a well-rounded villainess? I can get behind that; female characters deserve the same complex arcs that their male counterparts do. But the problem is that Miles and Kerry fucked it up. (Then again, it feels at times like Miles and Kerry don’t have a good track record, usually, with writing women. Not the only characters they struggle with, but it’s just to begin with)
On a much lighter note, I do like how you pointed out where RWBY got the representation right. I mean, you pointing out how RWBY got a Latina character as well as a plus size character right really was very sweet to read and given how the worse parts of RWBY seem to be trying to offend every marginalized group ever, it’s also a relief to read.
Re: Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
*hollow laughter* You just wait for it. The worst is yet to come.
In order to craft a good villain that can be rooted against, Miles and Kerry had to create a Salem that wasn't too sympathetic. But rather than make her a flawed but interesting antagonist whose own desire for evil outweighs her sympathetic qualities, they plunged us into a scenario where she is effectively blamed for all the evils of the world because two jackass deities responded to a minute annoyance with total omnicide.
This is my major proof that Ozma/Ozpin is a Mary Sue, because despite the story ostensibly setting this up as his dark secrets and skeletons in the closet coming out, the worst of it is going to be totally ignored in favor of making sure Salem is understood as just a gigantic bitch that got the world blown up because she was so selfish and arrogant. It's the same thing that happened with Hazel, with the determination to protect this character costing other characters around him.
Re: Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
And yeah, now that I think about it, that’s pretty accurate regarding how they treated Salem here. I guess that’s one danger of making your villains too sympathetic; you run the risk of making the heroes look like assholes, and the narrative look cruel. I think that creating a more nuanced version of Salem would have worked the best, the whole idea of having sympathetic qualities but her desire to do evil outweighs said sympathetic qualities. It’s definitely the best outcome given how badly canon butchers things.
And good point about Ozpin too. I mean, canon doesn’t really give itself permission to really show Ozpin as flawed, like actually flawed. And the way Salem’s demonized, it does definitely feel like Ozpin’s being favored here (and if that was unintentional on Miles and Kerry’s part, then that’s a very unfortunate fuck-up). Which, oof.
Re: Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
It’s a long list, but my point is, at least these stories did at least have a built-in explanation as to why resurrecting the dead is a terrible idea, and why bringing back a dead loved one (or outright shitheads like Gregor Clegane) doesn’t always work. RWBY doesn’t really have that at all from what I can see
There is a thematic reason for it, in that one of RWBY's themes, perhaps its core theme, is the need to move on from loss and traumatic experiences rather than letting them consume you - this is perhaps most obvious in the show's somewhat binary treatment of abuse and its victims - so in that sense, 'you can't bring your loved ones back, you have to accept their loss and let them go' makes sense, it's just that there's nothing in-universe to justify it.
It really reminds me of Greek Mythology and some of the complaints raised by people who study it.
At least for most of Greco-Roman mythology the gods aren't supposed to be moral paragons, and while RWBY will complicate its gods later down the line, the treatment of them here reminds me somewhat of the Aeneid (TW for sexual assault) on the one hand, Jupiter is presented as the author and upholder of the principle of order in the cosmos, guiding the course of history towards the glorious destiny of Rome; but at the same time we're introduced to Juturna, a Latin princess whom Jupiter has raped and then cursed with immortality.
As WA Camps noted mildly in his introduction to the Aeneid: 'The Jupiter of the Aeneid... is rather different to the Jupiter who is the hero of those sorts of stories'.
And it's the same with Light here, whose unspeakable cruelty to both Salem and Ozma sits at odds with the presentation of him as the font of authority and the moral voice of the parable.
Re: Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
Regarding the theme, yeah, that makes sense. I mean, sticking to themes is lovely, I won’t deny that, and the idea of resolving trauma is lovely, but it doesn’t sound like Miles and Kerry thought that theme through with Salem here.
(I’m intrigued in hearing more regarding how you think RWBY treats abuse and its victims, by the way!)
Shit. I didn’t read the Aeneid (I did read the Iliad and the Odyssey though), but that sounds fucked up — if in character, unfortunately, for Zeus. Like, sleeping around with mortals is one thing, but no means no, baby. But good point regarding Greco-Roman mythology. (Hell, as much as I didn’t really care for Hera as a kid, it was still undeniable that her marriage to Zeus was terrible. I kind of see her like Beatrice from BoJack Horseman; she definitely had a shit marriage, to begin with, but it doesn’t excuse her treatment of Zeus’ various women he slept with or their children for that matter — kind of like BoJack Horseman doesn’t give Beatrice a pass for her actions. Beatrice’s portrayal is a good way, I think, of averting the idea of letting off a female character too easily when she has done something horrible without being disproportionately cruel to the point of misogyny)
But yeah, you summed up how awful Light is here very well, and I’m glad you pointed out how fucked Ozma’s treatment was. Like, he is a bodysnatcher who should be called out for his actions, but Light seemed perfectly okay with causing it and not caring about who got dragged into it, even Oscar, a child. (It’s like, did Light hate Salem so much he’d be okay with Oscar’s current predicament?) No wonder Remnant’s so fucked up if Light is supposed to be the “good” god here. Like, if Salem succeeded in killing both gods and making herself a goddess, I’m sure even she would do a better job than Light. (Then again, anyone would)
Re: Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
(I’m intrigued in hearing more regarding how you think RWBY treats abuse and its victims, by the way!)
Well, trying not to spoil anything, what you end up with is a stark divide between 'good' abuse victims (Weiss, Blake, Yang), who nobly rise above the abuse they have suffered and move past it, and 'bad' abuse victims (Salem, as you could probably guess by now) who end up becoming abusers themselves as they pass their abuse on to other people and are treated as irredeemable monsters because of it. Which isn't necessarily bad, but does end feeling kind of stark; there is one character who I won't name who does kind of walk the line between hurting other people while still having it acknowledged that they are capable of goodness... but as you'll see it kind of feels like the narrative eventually just forgets about the people she hurt.
Shit. I didn’t read the Aeneid (I did read the Iliad and the Odyssey though), but that sounds fucked up
Juturna is a very tragic character, and yet at the same time she gets one of the most awesome moments in the whole story as she, in disguise, rallies her brother's army for one last charge in a forlorn attempt to rescue him.
Which is symptomatic of the overarching problem with the second half of the Aeneid which is that you can't help but root for the Latins and Rutulians. Besides Juturna you have her hot-blooded brother Turnus, Lausus with the gold shirt his mother wove for him, Camilla the amazon princess and her warrior maidens, they're just trying to defend their homes, they're all victims of Juno's meddling, and the odds are so ridiculously stacked against them - the gods and destiny itself have proclaimed Aeneas the inevitable winner of the war - that the only tension is whether any of these poor buggers are going to make it out alive. And in the end, only Juturna does, being commanded by the gods to abandon her brother to his end during the final battle.
I sound quite hard on the Aeneid here, but I actually really like it, but I like it in part because I really like the Italian characters; there's a reason why I based a whole load of RWBY OCs on them complete with all the headcanons I've had about them since I was 13 years old.
Re: Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
Damn. That really does sound like a difficult situation. But I can imagine why you got as attached to the Italian characters — and it sounds like you got something good out of it with your RWBY OCs! Which is something. :)
Re: Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
But I can imagine why you got as attached to the Italian characters — and it sounds like you got something good out of it with your RWBY OCs! Which is something. :)
They are some of my absolute oldest blorbos, without doubt; perhaps my very oldest. When I was thirteen and studying the Aeneid for Class Civ, I tried to write a perspective flip novel that retold the story from the perspective of Turnus and the Rutulians - sort of like Lavinia, only I was a thirteen year old little shit instead of Ursula le Guin. It didn't work, but it did mean that I had all these concepts for how I envisaged the characters sort of lying around in my head when I needed some OCs for the Mistral Arc, and RWBY is all about taking myth and fairytale characters and playing around with them, after all.
Re: Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
Also, your thirteen year old self sounds awesome. I'm not kidding.
Re: Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
There is a fic that my beta readers write and that I mentioned to these people, and they got a hold of its trope page and... I can honestly see why you might be put off by a fic in which Ruby, Weiss and Pyrrha are all into Jaune, and if I didn't know the authors I'd say it smacked of shallow self-insert wish-fulfillment (as it is I think it works pretty well in context, with some nice parallels to Summer, Tai and Raven), but I don't see how you can honestly label it 'Canon Defilement' as they did. Yes, in the show, Ruby and Weiss weren't attracted to Jaune at that time, but exploring non-canon pairing is part of the DNA of fanfiction, it's one of the reasons why fanfiction exists, along with exploring alternate versions or unexplored facets of the characters, something that they also labelled 'Canon Defilement' when it was applied to Adam in that same fic.
Also, your thirteen year old self sounds awesome. I'm not kidding.
Aww, thank you.
Re: Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
And you’re welcome, by the way!
Re: Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
Re: Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
Re: Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
This is hysterically funny for reasons I can't tell you about yet.
Re: Icon for Salem’s backstory: Rey is not impressed with this tomfoolery
V6E2
If you haven't been keeping up with the spork so far, now might be a very good time to start reading. We have some Moments(TM) rapidly approaching.
Well, time for me to show my face, then. I've been kind of keeping up since you restarted this late last year, and now I think it's time to comment.
N: I mean, on the bright side, we finally get to get out of this house!
Well, for however long you'll stay relevant. I'm not quite optimistic about that.
According to him, the Relic of Knowledge—which grows to its base size when removed from his hip—can answer any question, a power which impresses the surrounding students, and rightfully so.
Makes sense. I can also guess what the Relics of Creation and Destruction would do, but the Relic of Choice? No idea.
Something that makes way less sense is that the lamp will only answer three questions once every hundred years.
Then it is utterly useless! What if it was needed fifty years in between? What, do world-changing events only happen at hundred-year intervals? If you want such a protection on it, have the lamp only answer to the Maidens or something. Then it could be useful, at least.
If you wanted to put a limit on this thing so that it doesn’t render any and all conflicts trivial, why didn’t you try some other variation of limitation? Like, maybe only one question can be asked by any one person? That means RWBYJNPRQ have a maximum of ten questions they can ask, and no more. Easy enough to work around so long as the person who asks is willing to share. Or, if that’s still too overpowered, try this—receiving the answer to a question knocks a person out for some undisclosed amount of time, because of the information being sifted through their head, or some such, making the relic risky to use in the wrong situations.
Good thinks!
Behold RWBY’s first Latina character! Who, to my knowledge, will not be getting any RSVP points, at least this volume. She’s not a part of any racial allegory, she’s just an ethnic character who’s allied with the heroes. And I love her.
Oh, me too. I've barely seen anything of her, and I already know she doesn't deserve to be stuck in this show.
Ozpin pretty promptly takes over his body, and no, he does not ask.
They'd earn a me more goodwill if someone finally told to him to stop taking people over.
Oz: It is true that the Grimm are attracted to the relics. It’s faint, but undeniable. I believe it has to do with their origin, but I’m not entirely sure. Regardless, I feared that making you all aware would only add anxiety and negativity. It seemed like the safer option.
And how would that have made the situation worse? The Grimm would come anyway, and allowing them to prepare would only make them likelier to survive! Oh, and Ozpin, finding out you'd lied to them about this wouldn't create negative emotions?
Oscar, struggling to speak, tries to tell them Ozpin is afraid they’ll find out what he’s done, what he’s hiding.
Yes! Fight him, Oscar! Reveal his secrets!
Her name is Jinn… Say her name to summon her!
Painfully generic name compared to most of the other names, to be honest.
…A naked blue woman wearing gold chains, which as I have heard, was blatantly ripped off of some franchise or other, which would not be surprising in the least.
Well, there's the ghost from the lamp, ready to ~~grant three wishes~~ answer three questions. Very creative.
This is our first plus size character. Like, of the series as a whole. Not exactly on time, but not the butt of jokes, or implied to be unattractive, or given tiresome comedic elements, and apparently a figure of fear and respect. It seems we are indeed improving. Baby steps, but yes. This is the gang leader known as Little Miss Malachite, and she is amazing and I love her.
Oooh, she looks promising! Too bad this comes, along with Maria, in Volume six, and I have a suspicion everything will be going off the rails quite fast.
I am Jinn, a being created by the god of light to aid humanity in its pursuit of knowledge.
Because being able to ask three questions per hundred years will help so much. How would you even know what the right questions are??
Qrow tries to intervene—only to be stopped by the point of Myrtenaster, and even Blake and Yang are prepared to hinder Qrow, in what happens to be the most delicious display I’ve ever seen. I wish they’d beat him up.
Ha! After what he pulled last episode, I wouldn't exactly mind. Better yet if they'd find a way to keep him from interfering altogether.
Ruby’s question has apparently been accepted, and she finds herself transported to a blank white void.
An exposition void, apparently. Great.
Get ready for the backstory, guys! And get ready for some bad, bad news.
Oh, I am.
Re: V6E2
It's like he thinks exclusively in ways that will cause greater harm.
No, no, it was some anime or card game...Can't remember which.
You know, something just occurred to me. One of the fanbackers who was responsible for NDGO's existence recently talked about Rooster Teeth's disdain towards the idea of a plus-sized rig for a female character. So just like with Bumbleby bait, plus-sized and nonwhite characters who don't die weren't on the table for consideration until damage control mode was activated.
It's so gross. Like oh, you have no need for fat characters or Latin characters, until Miles and Kerry fuck up and you have to try and appear like you give a shit? It pisses me off.
Terrible news! Qrow is going to continue to be the Worst!
Re: V6E2
Re: V6E2
It's like he thinks exclusively in ways that will cause greater harm.
It really is. I can't wait to see how severely he will break things.
No, no, it was some anime or card game...Can't remember which.
Ah, okay...
Blegh. It's gross indeed.
Terrible news! Qrow is going to continue to be the Worst!
Oh nice.
V6E3
Before we get into this, no, Salem being “the girl in the tower” does not mean all this crap was planned from Volume 3. We’ll find out why, later—but I just want this on the record, before someone comes in here complaining that I’m not connecting dots and seeing that Rooster Teeth are obviously masters of plot-weaving.
If they were, all this might come a little less out of nowhere.
Which is different from the present day how, exactly?
The only difference is that there's less kingdoms in the present, I guess.
J: And yet there she sat, within her tower.
Because reasons. What a great explanation.
Ozpin’s original form, then.
Interesting that he has mostly kept the same name. He now goes by Ozpin, after all, and I expect he'll soon go by Oscar. I'd expect him to have chosen another kind of name by now, to stop people from making the connection easily.
J: They escaped the wretched fortress. And yet, something bound them together. Ozma had been ready to give his life for justice countless times, but now saw a woman worth saving it for. And Salem, to her surprise, found her freedom not in the outside world she had yearned for, but in the eyes of the man who had saved her.
Of course...
J: The two fell deeply in love, planned adventures around the world, and lived happily ever after.
What did they even like in each other? And it wouldn't have hurt to know a little more about their relationship.
And where all of the beasts and blades of the world had fallen short, a single sickness prevailed.
Come to think of it, have we ever seen someone be ill in this show before? I'd get it if it doesn't fit the show, but the lack of people dying of illness comes across as a little unrealistic. Not that RWBY would be unique in that, of course.
Salem is shown traveling with Ozma’s staff to the “domain of light”, where she leaves an offering.
Where would that domain be? Does it even exist in the present day?
That’s the god of light? That’s the big man in charge, the elder brother, the being that embodies creation and goodness?! A blank ‘male’ character model with some deer horns added on top and colored yellow?!
I literally can't look at that gif without cracking up! How am I supposed to take him seriously?? He just looks so... plain.
Could you explain how you got "LuLaRwe", by the way?
Yep. More ken dolls and googly eyes. Check out the memes that came outta this one, guys.
Basically the GoL, but with ram's horns. Got it. Qua design, I also have to complain about the colour, because he's as good as invisble against the background, and the vapour coming off him makes it even worse.
Salem understood it well. She told him of her loss, and professed the she knew only he could answer her prayers, all while careful to make no mention of his elder.
Well, why should she? She simply wants a second opinion, and a fair chance.
It’s just presented to us in such a way that I guess we’re supposed to assume it.
Yeeah, that doesn't fly with me.
First, the god of light destroys Ozma once again, him disintegrating in Salem’s arms only seconds after she’d been reunited with him.
Wow. Before this, she at least had a body, but now, he's just plain gone.
The god of darkness brings him back again, and this process repeats as both gods get real ornery with each other…
Lovely.
And of course they become dragons. Okay, to be fair, I might have just read too much Mykan stuff.
But seriously, are these the kinds of gods we're supposed to side with? Who fight with each other using Salem as proxy/
The god of darkness destroys Ozma, and Salem sees him die again.
For the third time.
Traumatized beyond her breaking point, she summons her magic, but the god of light overpowers her.
And why was that necessary? Just to flex? How are we not supposed to side with Salem here?
Salem’s latest course of action wasn’t selfishness or arrogance—it was defiance against gigantic jackasses who made her watch her loved one die over and over again, and snubbed her for having the nerve to appeal to someone else after the first god rejected her.
^This.
She confronts the two all-powerful jackasses, who do not take kindly to like, maybe a hundred people brandishing weapons at them.
They can't possibly cause them harm, of course. It does make for a good test.
The dark god draws in their spells, and his counter-attack is orders of magnitude much greater than necessary.
What the fuck? And, on a minor note, why are there apparently Romans among tje ancient people?
I’m still not seeing where we got Salem the omnicidal entity of darkness from.
Me neither. I don't hold my breath for the next few episodes.
GoD: You do not understand. There is no one left.
So he wiped out all of humanity... Quite a reveal to drop in like this! And just to spite her? Who is supposed to be selfish and arrogant again?!
GoL: This planet was a beautiful experiment. But, it is merely a remnant of what it once was. We have learned from this failure. I hope that you will learn from yours. [vanishes]
So that's why it's called Remnant, apparently. And what is Salem supposed to learn of this?? "Blow up the world so I can finally die"?
GoD: Still demanding things of your creators?
Of all the heartless things...! And this is Salem's fault?!
He blasts away from the planet and blows up the moon on the way out?
So that's the origin of the shattered moon? The physics in that last gif are utterly bizarre, I msut say. How close was the moon to the earth??
I hope the next episodes give at least a bit of clarification.
Re: V6E3
LuLaRoe is a multi-level marketing company. If you don't know what those are, think "pyramid scheme that skates by on legal technicalities". Multi-level marketing schemes, also called network marketing, web-based marketing (not because of the internet, but because of the "spider's web" format), etc., is a scam format in which people pay to become a part of the company and go increasingly in debt trying to recruit downline by selling them products.
There's all types of MLMs, most being beauty-oriented and aimed at women. LuLaRoe focuses on clothing.
The thing about LuLaRoe is that, aside from being all of that, the clothes LuLaRoe sold were often the subject of mockery and horror for being horrendously ugly and tacky, and/or poorly constructed to the point of being ill-fitting, staining skin or other clothes, or just outright falling apart. LuLaRoe clothing is famous for lacking both fashion-wise and functionally.
So, when I hit my breaking point and could no longer take the shitty cosmetic elements--meaning clothing, weapon, and ability designs that didn't make sense, just looked like ass, or both--I started tallying it with "LuLaRwe".
Re: V6E3
Oh, good to know!
no subject